SitePoint Podcast＃167：炉边聊天
下載此劇集 (Download this Episode)
You can download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:
您可以將本集下載為獨立的MP3文件。 這是鏈接：
SitePoint Podcast #167: Fireside Chat (MP3, 26:32, 25.5MB)
SitePoint播客＃167：爐邊聊天 (MP3，26:32，25.5MB)
劇集摘要 (Episode Summary)
The panel discuss topics such as the statistic that around 50% of popular websites link to Facebook, an online retailer introduces an Internet Explorer 7 tax and more.
該小組討論的話題包括諸如統計數據，約50％的流行網站鏈接到Facebook，在線零售商介紹了Internet Explorer 7稅等等。
Here are the main topics covered in this episode:
以下是本集中介紹的主要主題：
How many sites have Facebook integration? You’d be surprised. via Report: Over 24% Of The Web’s Top 10,000 Sites Now Use Facebook’s Official Widgets | TechCrunch
有多少個網站與Facebook集成？ 您會感到驚訝。 通過報告：互聯網上前10,000個站點中有超過24％現在使用Facebook的官方小部件| TechCrunch
SitePoint’s New Logo — and the Story Behind It – SitePoint along with Web Archive of SitePoint.com
SitePoint的新徽標及其背后的故事– SitePoint以及SitePoint.com的Web存檔
Retailer’s Tax on IE 7 Users Opens New Front in Browser Wars
IE 7用戶的零售商稅在瀏覽器大戰中開啟了新的戰線
Browse the full list of links referenced in the show at?http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/167.
瀏覽http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/167中顯示的參考鏈接的完整列表。
主持人聚光燈 (Host Spotlights)
Stephan 1:?Business – Derek Thompson – Forget Edison: This Is How History’s Greatest Inventions Really Happened – The Atlantic
斯蒂芬1： 商業–德里克·湯普森–忘掉愛迪生：這就是歷史上最偉大的發明真正發生的方式–大西洋
Stephan 2:?TriggerTrap Mobile App
Stephan 2： TriggerTrap移動應用
Patrick:?Two and the Zoo – The Adventures of April, Brad, and the Ridiculous Zoo with Professional WordPress Second Edition is Coming!
帕特里克： 兩個動物園-四月冒險，布拉德和帶專業WordPress第二版 的可笑動物園 即將到來！
面試成績單 (Interview Transcript)
Patrick: Hello, and welcome to the SitePoint Podcast. For another group show, or is it a group show? Joining me today is only one person, Stephan Segraves. Hey Stephan. How’s it going?
帕特里克：您好，歡迎來到SitePoint播客。 要參加另一個集體表演，還是一個集體表演？ 今天只有我一個人，Stephan Segraves。 嗨，斯蒂芬。 怎么樣了？
Stephan: It’s going alright Patrick. How are you?
斯蒂芬：沒事，帕特里克。 你好嗎？
Patrick: It’s going good, going good. I had some fun time with my family this past week.
帕特里克：進展順利，進展順利。 過去一周，我與家人度過了愉快的時光。
Stephan: Good.
斯蒂芬：好。
Patrick: Yeah, I mean, I was thinking, I think this is what they call the Core Two show. Only baseball fans and maybe Yankee fans would be familiar with the term Core Four, which was kind of a nickname given to Derek Jeter, Andy Pettitte, Jorge Posada, and Mariano Rivera, who were players that were on the Yankees at the same time. Each won championships, and stayed with the team for a long time. Stephan and I are the remaining two members form the initial podcast hosting lineup and also the only remaining members from the Dot Net Magazine award-winning podcast theater team. So, this is the Core Two show.
帕特里克：是的，我是說，我在想，我認為這就是他們所說的核心二秀。 只有棒球迷和也許洋基球迷會熟悉“核心四人”一詞，這是昵稱給同時在洋基隊任職的德里克·杰特，安迪·佩蒂特，豪爾赫·波薩達和馬里亞諾·里維拉的綽號。 每個人都贏得了冠軍，并在車隊呆了很長時間。 斯蒂芬和我是最初播客主持陣容中剩下的兩名成員，也是《點網》雜志獲獎播客劇院團隊中僅有的其余成員。 所以，這是核心二秀。
Stephan: I wouldn’t put us on the same level as the Yankees though.
史蒂芬：我不會把我們和洋基隊放在一起。
Patrick: Sure, well, you know, there were some luminaries nominated that year such as Jeffery Zeldman, so that was a big win.
帕特里克(Patrick)：當然，你知道，那年有一些名人提名，例如杰弗里·扎德曼(Jeffery Zeldman)，這是一個巨大的勝利。
Stephan: Yeah, it was good.
斯蒂芬：是的，很好。
Patrick: You know, and if we only have two of us then it’s just a more intimate chat. It’s like you and I and the listener at the fireplace, right?
帕特里克：您知道，如果我們只有兩個人，那只是一次更加親密的聊天。 就像你我和壁爐旁的聽眾一樣，對嗎？
Stephan: Fireside chat.
史蒂芬：爐邊聊天。
Patrick: Yeah, it’s just a fireside chat, us three just talking about a few news items. So that’s what we’re going to do today. So the first story that we’re going to tackle today is from Pingdom, it’s pingdom.com, and they have done a study of the top 1000 websites in the world, to measure the presence on those sites of Facebook, Twitter, Google+ and LinkedIn, specifically how many of those sites use the official widgets provided by those services and how many just link and combine those numbers. They found that 24.3% of the top 10,000 websites in the world have some form of official Facebook integration on their homepage. That means some sort of widget script that Facebook provides on their website for webmaster, website owners, etc. to use, and links to the site, including those widgets, 49.3% have a link from Facebook on their homepage, whether it be a link or a widget. Meanwhile, Twitter comes in at 41.7%, Google+ at 21.5% and LinkedIn at 3.9%. You know, when I first saw these numbers my initial thought was “Wow, Google+ has made a lot of headway”.
帕特里克：是的，這只是爐邊聊天，我們三個人只是在談論一些新聞。 這就是我們今天要做的。 因此，我們今天要解決的第一個故事是來自Pingdom，它是pingdom.com，他們對全球前1000個網站進行了研究，以評估Facebook，Twitter，Google +和LinkedIn，特別是其中有多少網站使用這些服務提供的官方窗口小部件，還有多少只是鏈接并組合這些數字。 他們發現，全球前10,000個網站中有24.3％的主頁上有某種形式的官方Facebook集成。 這意味著Facebook在其網站上提供了一些小部件腳本，供網站管理員，網站所有者等使用，以及指向該網站的鏈接(包括這些小部件)，有49.3％的人在其主頁上都有來自Facebook的鏈接，無論該鏈接是或小部件。 同時，Twitter占41.7％，Google +占21.5％，LinkedIn占3.9％。 您知道嗎，當我第一次看到這些數字時，我最初的想法是“哇，Google +取得了很大進展”。
Stephan: Yeah.
斯蒂芬：是的。
Patrick: You know, I think people might bash them maybe a little bit, and I’ve seen people refer to it as a ghost town, but I know I personally get a lot of good out of Google+ and this shows that, you know, these large websites are really embracing Google+.
帕特里克：您知道，我認為人們可能會對他們進行一些抨擊，并且我已經看到人們將其稱為“鬼城”，但是我知道我個人從Google+中獲得了很多好處，這表明，您知道，這些大型網站確實采用了Google+。
Stephan: Yeah, I mean, even Pingdom. You look at the Pingdom page that this article is on and they’ve got the widget, both on the article site and for the page at the top, like for the entire site. It’s kind of overwhelming a little bit when you think about it, but it makes sense and I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t even really notice the buttons anymore. So it’s good to see numbers.
史蒂芬：是的，我的意思是，甚至Pingdom。 您可以查看本文所在的Pingdom頁面，他們在文章站點和頂部頁面(如整個站點)上都有小部件。 當您考慮它時，它有點讓人不知所措，但這是有道理的，而且我已經到了我什至沒有真正注意到按鈕的地步。 因此，很高興看到數字。
Patrick: Right, that’s a good point. You know, you’ve got Google+ at 21.5%, and then interestingly they do divide it by the, you know, that’s the overall number of all links from the homepage as the top 10,000, but all of the usage of the official widgets, they break that down. Like I said, Facebook’s 24.3%, but Google actually is at 13.3% ahead of Twitter at 10% and Google+’s widgets aren’t, I wouldn’t describe them as easy to find on the website, you know? And Twitter offers these different follow buttons and different strains that you can provide on your website, and obviously has been around longer than Google+, but as far as using these widgets, the official code provided by the service, Google+ is 3.3% ahead of Twitter on the top 10,000 websites. I found that surprising.
帕特里克：對，這是一個好點。 您知道Google+的比例為21.5％，然后有趣的是，他們的確將其除以首頁上所有鏈接的總數(前10,000個)，但是所有官方小部件的使用情況，他們將其分解。 就像我說的那樣，Facebook占24.3％，但是Google實際上比Twitter占10％的13.3％領先，而Google+的窗口小部件不是，我不會形容它們在網站上很容易找到，您知道嗎？ Twitter提供了這些不同的跟隨按鈕和不同的壓力，您可以在網站上提供它們，并且顯然比Google+更長，但是就使用這些小部件(該服務提供的官方代碼)而言，Google +比Twitter高3.3％在前10,000個網站上。 我感到驚訝。
Stephan: Do you think it’s partially because people like to use their own specific URL-shortener to share a link on Twitter? Like j.mp bit.ly type stuff and for Google+ they just use the Google short URL? Do you think that could be it, or at least part of it?
斯蒂芬：您認為這部分是因為人們喜歡使用自己的特定URL縮短器在Twitter上共享鏈接嗎？ 就像j.mp bit.ly一樣，對于Google+，他們只是使用Google短網址？ 您認為可能是這樣，還是至少有一部分？
Patrick: Yeah, I think that might be part of it. I think it’s interesting to also consider, because I initially skipped over this myself is the thought that really any button can be the Twitter button. They can have the Tweet button that we know on blog posts, you can have the follow button I’m pretty sure from reading this post. So, yeah, it’s interesting that not more pages have that. But then again, maybe the top 10,000 websites in the world, there’s a lot of different kind of sites in there I would imagine. You know, there’s a lot of big businesses, a lot of Fortune 500’s that aren’t like a blog type homepage. They don’t have the news items with the share links right on their homepage perhaps. Maybe that’s why Twitter is maybe a little lacking in that area of the widgets specifically just because people are more likely to want to just share their presence on Twitter via just a simple link or a Twitter icon, a button, a graphic that they designed or they put in line with the other ones to make it look uniform and then linked directly to Twitter just by themselves manually.
帕特里克：是的，我認為這可能是其中的一部分。 我認為也很有趣，因為我本人最初跳過了這一點，認為實際上任何按鈕都可以是Twitter按鈕。 他們可以使用博客文章上的“ Tweet”按鈕，也可以使用閱讀本文中確定的“關注”按鈕。 所以，是的，有趣的是沒有更多的頁面具有該功能。 但是話又說回來，也許是世界上排名前10,000的網站，我想在那里有很多不同類型的網站。 您知道，有很多大企業，很多《財富》 500強公司都沒有博客類型的主頁。 他們的主頁上可能沒有帶有共享鏈接的新聞項目。 也許這就是為什么Twitter可能在微件的那個領域中有所欠缺，特別是因為人們更愿意通過簡單的鏈接或Twitter圖標，按鈕，他們設計的圖形或他們與其他人保持一致，使其看起來統一，然后直接手動鏈接到Twitter。
Stephan: Yeah, yeah. That’s kind of what I do, so I can see that being an option, being a preference for sites not wanting to use the integration as much. I can see that.
斯蒂芬：是的，是的。 這就是我的工作方式，因此我可以看到它是一種選擇，是不希望使用該集成的網站的首選。 我理解了。
Patrick: Yeah, I think about this on my own sites and I guess I probably have 100% saturation for these services and the official widgets, but yeah. I mean if the variety of buttons and options, and I guess just how you use it, I guess that all would come in to effect. The “like” button obviously is very popular and they found that 7.3% of the top 10,000 have the official like button on their site. One other thing I thought was worth talking about was LinkedIn. I mean, if you’re LinkedIn and you’re at the bottom of this list, 0.6% of top 10,000 use your widget. 3.9% link to you or use a widget. Is that depressing to you? Is that just disappointing, or are you in a totally different market and don’t really care?
帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，我在自己的網站上考慮過，我想這些服務和官方小部件的飽和度可能是100％，但是是的。 我的意思是，如果按鈕和選項多種多樣，而且我猜您只是如何使用它，那么我想所有這些都會生效。 “喜歡”按鈕顯然很受歡迎，他們發現前10,000名用戶中有7.3％的網站上有官方“喜歡”按鈕。 我認為值得一提的另一件事是LinkedIn。 我的意思是，如果您是LinkedIn，并且在此列表的底部，則前10,000名用戶中有0.6％使用小部件。 3.9％鏈接到您或使用小部件。 這讓您感到沮喪嗎？ 這只是令人失望，還是您在一個完全不同的市場中，是否真的不在乎？
Stephan: I think it’s one of those things you’re in a totally different market. Unless you’re linking from your resumé or your personal site that’s just about you and your business abilities, I don’t think it has any relevance really, especially after this week’s password fiasco.
斯蒂芬：我認為這是您在一個完全不同的市場中的事情之一。 除非您是從簡歷或個人網站鏈接的，而這與您和您的業務能力有關，否則我認為它并沒有任何意義，尤其是在本周密碼慘敗之后。
Patrick: Right. It’s a good point because LinkedIn is sort of this more niche network for professional and even on my own sites I think of it that way as I only have LinkedIn on the blog about online community on my personal site, and that’s it as far as linking to LinkedIn. Because what do people care about LinkedIn if I’m writing about Bad Boy Records, or if they’re on my karate forums or something else? They just don’t. I’m not going to promote those sites on LinkedIn, because it just doesn’t make sense. On the next story I wanted to bring it home a little bit and talk about SitePoint’s new logo. Now, long term SitePoint designer Alex Walker wrote a detailed blog post on SitePoint.com explaining the process for changing SitePoint’s visual identity. They have a logo, they have a new one obviously now, but the one they had before that came out in early 2000, according to Alex, and now 10 years later they are looking for, you know, a bit of a facelift. Not being a designer myself I found it interesting to take a look at how an established brand like SitePoint which is pretty well staffed, it has a pretty good sized following online, and has been around for a long time, it’s an established brand with web developers, webmasters, and online businesspeople. And the steps that he took to kind of, and his team took, to go through all of these logo options and all of these design ideas, things that might be small to some people but really they are what make up the logo. Things like the position of the arrows, the spacing of the brackets in the SitePoint logo, how the negative space between the brackets could be used as a shape or if they should emphasize that or de- emphasize that. It’s just a long process.
帕特里克：對。 這是一個很好的觀點，因為LinkedIn是一種更專業的利基網絡，甚至在我自己的網站上，我也是這樣認為的，因為我在個人網站上只有關于在線社區的Blog上有LinkedIn，就此而言，領英。 因為如果我寫的是“壞男孩唱片”，或者他們在我的空手道論壇上或其他網站上，人們會對LinkedIn感到關注嗎？ 他們只是沒有。 我不會在LinkedIn上推廣這些網站，因為這沒有意義。 在下一個故事中，我想帶一點回家，談論一下SitePoint的新徽標。 現在，長期的SitePoint設計師Alex Walker在SitePoint.com上寫了一篇詳細的博客文章，解釋了更改SitePoint視覺標識的過程。 他們有一個徽標，現在顯然有一個新徽標，但是Alex認為，它們是在2000年初問世的。現在，十年后，他們正在尋找一些改頭換面的標志。 我自己不是一名設計師，但我發現有趣的是，看看像SitePoint這樣的知名品牌是如何配備人員的，它在網絡上的規模相當大，并且已經存在了很長時間，這是一個網絡知名品牌開發人員，網站管理員和在線商人。 以及他和他的團隊采取的步驟，以遍歷所有這些徽標選項和所有這些設計思路，這對于某些人來說可能很小，但實際上它們是徽標的組成部分。 諸如箭頭的位置，SitePoint徽標中方括號的間距，方括號之間的負空格如何用作形狀，或者它們是否應該強調或不強調那樣的事情。 這是一個漫長的過程。
Stephan: Yeah, yeah, and it’s kind of cool to see how it’s progressed from the old arrow that was like a right-facing arrow. I went back to the way back machine.
斯蒂芬：是的，從舊的箭頭向右看是如何發展的，這很酷。 我回到了機器的路上。
Patrick: Right.
帕特里克：對。
Stephan: And brought the old logo up and we’ve come from that to kind of the two arrows facing away from each other, and now this new incarnation is pretty cool and really interesting and I really like what they came up with for the new logo. Now they’ve just go to get the favicon updated.
史蒂芬(Stephan)：提出了舊徽標，我們由此而來，就是兩個彼此相對的箭頭，現在這種新的化身非常酷，而且非常有趣，我非常喜歡他們為新徽標想到的東西商標。 現在，他們只是去更新收藏夾圖標。
Patrick: Right, and actually, you know what? It is updated on mine so maybe that’s a caché.
帕特里克：對，實際上，你知道嗎？ 它是在我的上更新的，所以也許是個咖啡。
Stephan: That’s a cache. Yeah, it’s cache issue.
史蒂芬：那是一個緩存。 是的，這是緩存問題。
Patrick: Oh, a cache issue. Dang it, I’m gonna be made fun of again. So, yeah, I mean a lot of SitePoint visitors have been visiting the site for a long time and we are among those. You know, I was on staff, I’ve been on some sort of volunteer staff for SitePoint including the forums, the mentor adviser, and podcast host for, you know, over 10 years, and probably a member for 11 or 12 and I know you’re right there with me, perhaps even a little longer.
帕特里克：哦，緩存問題。 撞死了，我會再次被取笑。 所以，是的，我的意思是很多SitePoint訪問者訪問該網站已有很長時間了，我們就是其中之一。 您知道，我在工作人員中，我曾在SitePoint擔任過各種志愿人員，包括論壇，導師顧問和播客主持人，這些人已有10年以上的經驗，并且可能是11或12歲的成員，而我知道你就在我身邊，甚至更長一點。
Stephan: Yeah, I can’t even remember back when I first started reading the forums. I know it was back when they were still on UBB, so it was a long time ago.
斯蒂芬：是的，我什至不記得我剛開始閱讀論壇時的情況。 我知道他們還在UBB上時就回來了，所以很久以前。
Patrick: Yeah, I mean, and we, Stephan pulled up a link to archive.org as he mentioned, we’ll include this in the show notes as well, and it is for May 10th of 2000. SitePoint, I want to say it was originally webmasters-resources.com, if I’m remembering that correctly. It was something like that, then they changed to SitePoint. They also had four sites at once where they broke out to e-commerce based, webmaster based, promotion based, dot com. I don’t know the order of those occurrences, but even know they’ve kind of re-embraced that strategy to have these spin-off sites for design with Build Mobile and Design Festival and Ruby Source and Cloud Spring, PHP Master and so on, so that’s been interesting to see. But the logo that you pointed out is it’s an orange circle, it’s kind of a digital arrow with a tail pointed to the right, SitePoint.com and he said that was back in 2000. I don’t know if they went directly from this to the one that they’ve had for about 10 years, I mean, they’re around, it’s pretty close to it, and I thinks that’s what the article speaks to. Here, yeah. Alex says “The first SitePoint logo was created for the site launch in 2000” and the logo you probably know best, the one they’ve been using, was in 2002, so this is, I guess, the third SitePoint logo.
帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，我的意思是，我們斯蒂芬(Stephan)提起了他提到的archive.org的鏈接，我們也將其包含在展覽記錄中，并且是在2000年5月10日。SitePoint，我想說如果我沒記錯的話，它最初是webmasters-resources.com。 就像這樣，然后他們更改為SitePoint。 他們還同時擁有四個站點，在這些站點中出現了基于電子商務，基于網站管理員，基于促銷的.com。 我不知道這些事件發生的順序，但甚至知道他們已經重新采用了這種策略，以通過Build Mobile and Design Festival和Ruby Source and Cloud Spring，PHP Master等使這些衍生網站進行設計。繼續，所以這很有趣。 但是您指出的徽標是一個橙色的圓圈，它是一種數字箭頭，其尾巴指向右側，SitePoint.com，他說那是2000年。我不知道他們是否直接從此對于他們已經有大約10年的經歷，我的意思是，他們在身邊，非常接近，我認為這就是本文的目的。 在這里，是的。 亞歷克斯說：“第一個SitePoint徽標是為2000年的網站發布而創建的”，您可能最了解的徽標(他們一直在使用的徽標)是2002年，所以，我想這是第三個SitePoint徽標。
Stephan: Yeah, it’s kind of hard to believe that they’ve only gone through three logos as a web company.
斯蒂芬：是的，很難相信他們作為一家網絡公司僅經歷了三個徽標。
Patrick: Yeah.
帕特里克：是的。
Stephan: In 11 years.
斯蒂芬： 11年了。
Patrick: And there’s no rule book on this, as far as like when to change a logo or when it needs to be refreshed. I mean, I guess it’s a feeling. It’s something that comes from usually inside the company, maybe judging some sort of sentiment outside the company that a facelift is needed and you see it time and time again, and sometimes it goes really badly, like it did with the Gap.
帕特里克(Patrick)：關于何時更改徽標或何時需要刷新徽標，這方面沒有規則書。 我的意思是，我想這是一種感覺。 這通常是公司內部產生的，也許是判斷公司外部是否需要改頭換面，然后您一次又一次地看到它，有時效果真的很差，就像使用Gap所做的那樣。
Stephan: Yeah, but it’s great though. I think the story behind it all and the idea of trying to keep some sense of the old logo in the new logo so that you don’t scare people off, you know, I think it’s great and I love all that they give you, all the renditions, all of the though processes they went through and it’s great. I really like it. I find stuff like this fascinating, reading designer’s thoughts.
斯蒂芬：是的，但是很棒。 我認為這背后的故事以及試圖在新徽標中保留舊徽標的含義的想法，這樣您就不會嚇到人們，您知道，我認為這很棒，而且我喜歡他們給您的一切，所有的演繹過程，他們經歷的所有流程，都很棒。 我很喜歡。 我發現這樣有趣的東西，閱讀了設計師的想法。
Patrick: Yeah, I think even explaining it like this as Alex did is a way of helping people to embrace it, right? And you think SitePoint is a webcentric, web development, web designer community. So it’s a little different from The Gap, right? They’re introducing their new logo to web designers which can be more critical I would say, it could be more difficult, but it also can be easier if you open up the gates a little bit and explain, you know “This was our design process. This is what we went through. We went through five rounds or however many rounds it was of design”. He posted pictures of, like, they had the logos printed out, even an arrow was printed out so they could play with just the alignment of the arrows in the logo, and, yeah, I mean, it’s a really good thing to do on SitePoint. So, now, we’ve beat around the bush a bit, so what do you think of the new logo?
帕特里克：是的，我認為即使像亞歷克斯一樣這樣解釋，也是幫助人們擁抱它的一種方式，對嗎？ 而且您認為SitePoint是一個以Web為中心的Web開發Web設計者社區。 所以它與The Gap有點不同，對吧？ 他們正在向網頁設計師介紹他們的新徽標，這可能會更關鍵，這可能會更困難，但是如果您稍稍打開大門并解釋一下，您就會知道，“這就是我們的設計處理。 這就是我們經歷的。 我們經歷了五輪甚至是設計的許多輪。” 他張貼了印有徽標的圖片，甚至印出了箭頭，這樣它們就可以與徽標中的箭頭對齊來播放，是的，我的意思是，這樣做確實很不錯SitePoint。 所以，現在，我們有點掙扎了，那么您如何看待新徽標？
Stephan: I like it. I kinda don’t, I’m not really much a fan of the drop shadow, but that’s just a personal thing that’s in the arrow, but overall I like it. It still feels like SitePoint to me, which is the most important thing, right?
史蒂芬：我喜歡。 我有點不喜歡，我不是很喜歡投影，但這只是箭頭所指的個人事物，但總的來說，我喜歡它。 在我看來仍然像SitePoint，這是最重要的，對吧？
Patrick: Yeah, I mean, I’d agree with that. It’s a good update, like a refresh, which is a word I keep using, of their existing logo. So you go there, you see the placement of the arrows, it’s different, but the arrows are still there so you still make that connection, and I think it’s just a nice, clean, logo, so, then, you know, I’ve joked about SitePoint on here before. I’m not necessarily, even though this is the SitePoint podcast we don’t necessarily have to say all good things, but this is a nice logo. I like the direction of it, and congratulations to Alex and team on getting it done.
帕特里克：是的，我是說，我同意。 這是對他們現有徽標的很好的更新，例如刷新，我一直使用這個詞。 所以您去那里，看到箭頭的位置，不同，但是箭頭仍然存在，因此您仍可以建立連接，而且我認為它只是一個不錯的，干凈的徽標，所以，那么，我知道我以前在這里開玩笑說過SitePoint。 我不一定，即使這是SitePoint播客，我們也不一定要說所有好話，但這是一個不錯的徽標。 我喜歡它的方向，并祝賀亞歷克斯和團隊完成了它。
Stephan: Yeah, I think it’s interesting too, I should point out that the font that they went with is a nice font, and they went with a different color. That’s one thing that’s really subtly different. It’s black, or gray, and not the blue.
史蒂芬：是的，我也覺得很有趣，我應該指出，他們使用的字體是一種不錯的字體，并且它們使用了不同的顏色。 那是一件事，確實有一點不同。 它是黑色或灰色，而不是藍色。
Patrick: Right. That’s a good point.
帕特里克：對。 那是個很好的觀點。
Stephan: Which is different, you know, it makes it stand out a little bit more. So anyway, good job guys. I really, really, really like it.
斯蒂芬：那是不同的，你知道，它使它更加突出。 所以無論如何，干得好。 我真的非常非常喜歡它。
Patrick: And the fireside chat continues with a story from ReadWriteWeb by Brian Prophet and this story is about an Internet Explorer 7 tax and there is a store, kogan.com, hopefully I’m pronouncing that right, and it is an Australian electronics retailer. I’m not familiar with it myself, but that’s just from judging the site. They also sell in the UK as well I guess. It’s kogan.com and kogan.co.uk, and he made a blog post, he being Russell Kogan, the owner of kogan.com, introducing a new Internet Explorer 7 tax. So what it means is that this company is charging users of Internet Explorer 7 an extra tax, in their words, on top of whatever purchase they want to make in the store, of 6.8%, that’s .1% for every month since IE7 has been released. I looked around, I tried to see if this was a joke, you know. I mean, there’s a tongue-in-cheek nature to it, but I mean the tax itself, he shows a screenshot, it’s listed as a tax of 6.8% of a purchase of I don’t know how much it was, but there’s a $41 tax on whatever this screenshot example is, and it appears to be a real charge. Hopefully I’m not wrong in that claim. I did some Googling and some research. Though it is meant as tongue-in-cheek and he said he doesn’t think anyone will actually pay it, it does apparently exist. What do you think about this?
帕特里克(Patrick)：在爐邊聊天中，繼續講了Brian Prophet的ReadWriteWeb故事，這個故事講的是Internet Explorer 7稅，還有一家商店kogan.com，希望我能說出這一權利，這是一家澳大利亞電子產品零售商。 我本人并不熟悉它，但這只是從評估站點而已。 我猜他們也在英國出售。 這是kogan.com和kogan.co.uk，他發表了一篇博客文章，他是kogan.com的所有者Russell Kogan，他介紹了新的Internet Explorer 7稅。 因此，這意味著這家公司要向Internet Explorer 7用戶收取額外的稅，用他們的話說，他們想在商店中進行的購買都是6.8％，這是自IE7以來每月的0.1％。被釋放。 我環顧四周，我試圖看看這是否是個玩笑。 我的意思是，這是一種開玩笑的性質，但是我的意思是，稅收本身，他顯示了一個屏幕截圖，它被列為購買商品的6.8％的稅收，我不知道這是多少。無論此屏幕截圖示例是什么，都需要支付41美元的稅，這似乎是一筆實際費用。 希望我的說法沒有錯。 我做了一些谷歌搜索和研究。 盡管這是開玩笑的意思，他說他認為沒有人會真正付錢，但它確實存在。 你怎么看待這件事？
Stephan: I think it’s a bit ridiculous. I can understand his frustration, but what if someone just doesn’t want to install it, install a different browser or can’t because they’re on a work machine, then they’re going to have to pay 6.8% more on their purchase? People just won’t go buy it somewhere else. I don’t know. I can see why you would do something like this to make a statement, but at the same time I’m kind of, it kind of makes me scratch my head. On top of all of this, I’ll just say today I needed to do something that required me to complete a purchase online, and I couldn’t actually do it in Chrome. The website broke in Chrome. So I had to use Internet Explorer, and it worked.
史蒂芬：我認為這有點荒謬。 我能理解他的無奈，但是如果某人只是不想安裝它，安裝其他瀏覽器或者因為在工作機器上而無法安裝它，那他們將不得不多付6.8％的費用怎么辦？采購？ 人們只是不會去其他地方購買。 我不知道。 我可以理解為什么您會做這樣的事情來發表聲明，但是與此同時，我有點讓我撓頭。 最重要的是，我今天要說的是，我需要做一些事情，需要我完成在線購買，而我實際上無法在Chrome中完成購買。 該網站使用Chrome瀏覽器。 因此，我不得不使用Internet Explorer，并且它起作用了。
Patrick: Right. It probably wasn’t version 7.
帕特里克：對。 它可能不是版本7。
Stephan: No. It was 8.
史蒂芬：不，那是8 歲 。
Patrick: You know, and I wanted to, I was curious what you thought before I jaded the conversation with my “Why This is Bad”. But, I think your point is a good one. Like, I think that, so there’s a few issues here. First of all, I don’t, I’m not familiar with Australian law. I mean, this seems kind of strange to me, calling something a tax, and, I mean, I guess it’s OK. I’m sure they make money so I’m sure it’s been thoroughly vetted by their people, it does seem kind of strange to me in that regard, but two big reasons why it’s bad. First is, I think a lot of people, I think will probably accept that a lot of people who use IE7 use IE7 not out choice, but out of it simply being what they can use at work or elsewhere, and so this percentage of people that’s on IE7 it’s going to be, I would think to a substantial extent, people who can’t upgrade for some reason, and so you’re essentially telling people they’re going to pay extra. And the average person, like you said, is probably going to say “Forget that. I’m just gonna go elsewhere”, so what it becomes for you, first of all, you’re punishing people, right? Second of all, it’s a competitive disadvantage to you. You’ve effectively introduced a competitive disadvantage to your business. And I understand his point here that he has to pay developers and his web people extra money to make sure that their website is accommodating to IE7 and he wants to stop doing that and save money, so now he’s gonna pass that on to the customer I guess you could say. But, for every one of him there’s gonna be 100, 1,000, 5,000 other stores selling the same product that don’t do that. So, it definitely becomes a competitive disadvantage where, because it’s a good-sized company, from what I’m reading. They make a lot of money, so you have another large store who says “OK, we’re going to accept IE7” and they could even make a press event about it, a press release saying they’re accommodating to IE7, they understand, they feel bad for those people, they have sympathy for the people that are stuck on IE7 and they want to make it easier for those people shop, and I think that might be a better story.
帕特里克(Patrick)：您知道，而且我想，在我厭倦了與“為什么這很糟糕”的談話之前，我很好奇您的想法。 但是，我認為您的觀點很好。 就像，我認為，這里有幾個問題。 首先，我不熟悉澳大利亞法律。 我的意思是，這對我來說有點奇怪，我稱之為稅，而且我想這還可以。 我確定他們能賺錢，所以我確定這已經被他們的人徹底審查過了，在我看來，這確實有些奇怪，但這是造成不良影響的兩個主要原因。 首先，我認為很多人，我想可能會接受很多使用IE7的人并不是選擇IE7，而是出于選擇，只是因為他們可以在工作中或在其他地方使用，所以這一比例的人那將是在IE7上，我認為在很大程度上，由于某種原因而無法升級的人，因此，您實質上是在告訴人們他們將支付額外的費用。 就像您說的那樣，普通人可能會說：“算了。 我只是要去別的地方”，所以這對您來說會是什么，首先，您在懲罰別人，對嗎？ 其次，這對您來說是一個競爭劣勢。 您已經有效地給您的企業帶來了競爭劣勢。 我在這里明白他的觀點，他必須向開發人員和他的網絡人員支付額外的錢，以確保他們的網站適應IE7，并且他想停止這樣做并節省資金，所以現在他要將其轉嫁給客戶我猜猜你可以說。 但是，對于他的每一個人，將有100、1,000、5,000個其他商店銷售不這樣做的相同產品。 因此，從我所讀的內容來看，這絕對是一個競爭劣勢，因為這是一家規模龐大的公司。 他們賺了很多錢，所以您還有另一家大商店說“好，我們將接受IE7”，他們甚至可以舉辦新聞發布會，新聞稿說他們正在適應IE7，他們了解，他們對那些人感到難過，對那些被IE7困擾的人表示同情，他們想使這些人更容易購物，我認為那可能是一個更好的故事。
Stephan: You read the article and one of the quotes is “If we choose to make a pixel-perfect website in Internet Explorer 6 to 8 then we are doing up to 100% more work.” So, it’s not where they want to make it work to where it’s just functional, they want to make it pixel-perfect. And there’s a difference too in that thinking. If I wanted to make the website work in Chrome and look OK in IE7 I’m sure that not going to take 100% more work, but if I want to make them exactly the same to where every user gets the exact same experience, then of course, yeah, it’s going to take more work. Because they’re different browsers, and I think you’re still going to have to do that even with Safari and Chrome and Opera to get them all to work like that. You’re still going to have to do some level of more effort to get the websites to show up exactly the same, to get them to be pixel- perfect.
斯蒂芬：您閱讀了這篇文章，其中的一句話是“如果我們選擇在Internet Explorer 6至8中創建一個像素完美的網站，那么我們最多可以完成100％的工作。” 因此，這并不是他們想要使其發揮功能的地方，而是希望使它達到像素完美。 這種想法也有所不同。 如果我想讓該網站在Chrome中運行并在IE7中看起來不錯，那么我確定不會多做100％的工作，但是如果我想使其完全相同，以使每個用戶都能獲得完全相同的體驗，那么當然，是的，這將需要更多的工作。 因為它們是不同的瀏覽器，而且我認為即使使用Safari，Chrome和Opera，您仍然必須這樣做，才能使它們全部正常工作。 您仍然需要付出更多的努力才能使網站顯示完全相同，并使它們成為像素完美的。
Patrick: Right. And that quote is from Lea Verou, hopefully I’m saying that right, and she was interviewed on the SitePoint Podcast back in November by Louie Simoneau on episode 139 if you want to check that out. But, yeah, I mean, it’s interesting to me to take this kind of road, and there’s definitely a lot of press being generated by it, so I’m sure that it’s been official, but looking at the stat counter, Global Stats, which measure usage of browsers and specific versions on all sites that are measured by statcounter.com, they’re regularly referred to as far as market share statistics are concerned, IE7 is currently at 1.53% of all browser usage. This is through May 2012. That’s not a big deal. Is that really worth making a stink over? Do you think that the 1.7% that aren’t up to date are going to be somehow motivated by the fact that you’re not going to sell them a product without charging them 7% extra? I don’t know. I just checked also, since this main base of operations appears to be Australia, I wanted to check what the IE7 count was in Australia and it’s 1.33%, so it’s not like there’s some disparity there between the global numbers and the Australian numbers. They are, you know, pretty much the same.
帕特里克：對。 那句話來自Lea Verou，希望我說的沒錯，如果您想查看一下，她在11月的Louie Simoneau的第139集的SitePoint播客中接受了采訪。 但是，是的，我的意思是，走這條路對我來說很有趣，而且肯定會產生很多新聞，所以我敢肯定這是官方的，但請看一下統計柜臺Global Stats，根據statcounter.com衡量所有網站上瀏覽器和特定版本使用情況的指標，就市場份額統計數據而言，它們經常被引用，IE7當前占所有瀏覽器使用率的1.53％。 到2012年5月為止。這沒什么大不了的。 這真的值得臭嗎？ 您是否認為尚未更新的1.7％會在某種程度上受到以下事實的激勵：您不會在不向他們收取7％的費用的情況下向他們出售產品？ 我不知道。 我也剛剛檢查了一下，因為這個主要的業務基地似乎是澳大利亞，所以我想檢查一下IE7在澳大利亞的數量是1.33％，所以這并不意味著全球數字與澳大利亞數字之間存在一些差異。 您知道，它們幾乎相同。
Stephan: Yeah. And what kind of items do they sell you said?
斯蒂芬：是的。 他們說你賣什么物品？
Patrick: They sell electronics, home appliances, cameras, tablets, audio equipment, phones. I mean, they’re like an electronics store.
帕特里克(Patrick)：他們銷售電子產品，家用電器，相機，平板電腦，音頻設備，電話。 我的意思是，他們就像一家電子產品商店。
Stephan: OK, yeah. I mean, so, it’s surprising to me that they have such a large number of IE users that they had to come up with this.
斯蒂芬：好的，是的。 我的意思是，因此，令我感到驚訝的是，他們擁有如此眾多的IE用戶，以至于不得不提出這個建議。
Patrick: Right.
帕特里克：對。
Stephan: And this tax is on their home page which makes me think more and more that it’s kind of a publicity thing.
史蒂芬：這項稅收在他們的主頁上，這使我越來越多地認為這是一種宣傳。
Patrick: Oh yeah. I think, yeah, there’s no doubt that it is, but, you know, could you imagine Best Buy doing this or Amazon or name any, buy.com or any large internet retailer that sells electronics and Amazon moves a ton of electronics obviously, doing that sort of thing? No, in fact if they find that 1% of their users use a certain thing they’ll optimize for that 1%.
帕特里克：是的。 我認為，是的，這是毫無疑問的，但是，您知道嗎，您可以想象百思買這樣做或亞馬遜，或者命名為buy.com或任何出售電子產品的大型互聯網零售商，而亞馬遜顯然在移動大量電子產品，在做那種事情？ 不，實際上，如果他們發現有1％的用戶使用了某種東西，他們會為此1％進行優化。
Stephan: Wow, I just don’t get it. I think it’s a bad move personally in the long term.
史蒂芬：哇，我不明白。 從長遠來看，我個人認為這是一個壞舉動。
Patrick: Yeah, it’s a tricky thing. It’s almost like a statement that would be best served on a store that was focused at web designers, right? Like a font shop or a web development book place, like SitePoint books.
帕特里克：是的，這很棘手。 這幾乎就像一條聲明，最好在專門針對網頁設計師的商店中使用，對嗎？ 像是字體商店或Web開發書店，例如SitePoint書。
Stephan: Yeah, yeah.
斯蒂芬：是的，是的。
Patrick: Or someone who really sells hard designers and people who are like “Oh, yeah. I hate IE7. I hate IE7”, not a general consumer web store.
帕特里克(Patrick)：或者是一個真正推銷堅強設計師的人，比如“哦，是的。 我討厭IE7。 我討厭IE7”，而不是一般的消費者網上商店。
Stephan: Yeah, exactly. I think a more niche site would be better suited for this type of move. Definitely.
斯蒂芬：是的，確實如此。 我認為，更具特色的網站將更適合此類舉動。 絕對是
Patrick: Alright, so that brings the story portion of our show to an end, but we’ve got spotlights and since we only have the two of us, Stephan is going to take two spotlights this week.
帕特里克(Patrick)：好的，這使我們演出的故事部分結束了，但是我們有很多聚光燈，而且由于我們只有兩個人，所以斯蒂芬本周將要亮相兩個聚光燈。
Stephan: Yeah, so I’ll go with the first one, the more serious one, is an article in the Atlantic, about how history’s greatest inventions really happened. It’s about eight different inventions that we all have somehow used probably today in some way, and really how they weren’t invented by a single person, and how it was a growth of either knowledge or growth of history or a growth of something and how it all came together to become this invention that one person is known for. So they go through things like the telegraph, the telephone, the movie project, the airplane, and the television and some others and it’s just a great read and it makes you think that even though you may be doing something and you feel like you’re the only person out there that’s ever come up with something, there’s been probably someone else that’s come up with something similar and you’re just building on top of it. I think it’s kind of humbling.
斯蒂芬：是的，所以我要講的第一個，更嚴肅的是，在大西洋上的一篇文章，講述歷史上最偉大的發明是如何發生的。 今天我們大概都以某種方式使用了大約八種不同的發明，實際上它們是不是一個人發明的，它是知識的增長還是歷史的增長或某物的增長以及如何發展。所有人共同成為了這項發明。 因此，他們經歷了諸如電報，電話，電影項目，飛機，電視以及其他一些東西，這是一本很棒的書，它使您認為即使您正在做某事并且覺得自己是唯一一個提出過類似建議的人，可能還有其他人提出過類似的建議，而您只是在此之上。 我認為這有點謙虛。
Patrick: Yeah. I think that’s an interesting point and I guess that has particular applications kind of our web dev tech software where all of them talk about patents and all the lawsuits.
帕特里克：是的。 我認為這很有趣，我想我們的Web開發技術軟件具有特定的應用程序類型，其中所有人都談論專利和所有訴訟。
Stephan: Yeah, exactly. I think it’s just a good read for people who are writing code or doing something. You’re building on the blocks of someone else before you, even if you’re not inherently aware of it.
斯蒂芬：是的，確實如此。 我認為這對于編寫代碼或做某事的人來說是一本好書。 即使您并非天生就意識到這一點，您仍在構建其他人的障礙。
Patrick: Very cool, and I noticed that the title of this article is “Forget Edison: This is How History’s Greatest Inventions Really Happened”. Is it just me or is Edison taking some heat lately? I don’t know if you caught, did you catch The Oatmeal comic about why Nikola Tesla was the greatest geek to ever live and how Edison was basically a-
帕特里克：非常酷，我注意到本文的標題是“忘記愛迪生：這是歷史上最偉大的發明真正發生的方式”。 是我還是愛迪生最近才來點熱量？ 我不知道您是否被捉住，是否被《燕麥片》(The Oatmeal)漫畫所吸引，這部漫畫講述了尼古拉·特斯拉(Nikola Tesla)為什么是有史以來最偉大的怪胎，以及愛迪生的基本想法
Stephan: A chump?
史蒂芬：笨蛋？
Patrick: Yeah, a money-grubbing jerk? Yeah, yeah. What did you think of all that?
帕特里克：是的，一個混蛋？ 是啊。 您如何看待所有這些？
Stephan: Which was funny too, and then there was this huge paper written on about how we shouldn’t write off, or how we shouldn’t worship Tesla, which is another great read.
史蒂芬：這也很有趣，然后寫了一篇關于我們不應該注銷或不應該崇拜特斯拉的論文，這是另一本很棒的讀物。
Patrick: And what’s the second spotlight?
帕特里克：第二點是什么？
Stephan: Well, the second spotlight is more of an iPhone app tool fun thing to play with. I am going on a trip in July and I wrote a time lapse application for my calculator. I have a TI-83 or something and I wanted to do time lapse with it and so I wrote this application in basic and then plugged the calculator into my DSLR and took time lapse photos with it, but it’s just bulky and it’s a pain in the butt. So, there’s this application for your iPhone called Trigger Trap, and it’s a mobile application and it has a little plug that you plug into your phone and then it connects to your camera and it allows you to do things like time lapse, ease time lapse, HDR, just a bunch of different things, and I think it’s a really cool tool and I’ve just started playing with it so I’m just now getting a feel for it. But I’m really excited that now I can just carry only my phone and not have to lug a calculator halfway across the world.
斯蒂芬：嗯，第二個焦點是更多的iPhone應用程序工具。 我要在7月旅行，并且為計算器編寫了一個延時應用程序。 我有TI-83之類的東西，我想用它做延時攝影，所以我用基本的方法編寫了這個應用程序，然后將計算器插入我的DSLR并用它拍了延時攝影照片，但是它體積很大，而且很難屁股。 因此，您的iPhone有一個名為Trigger Trap的應用程序，它是一個移動應用程序，它有一個小插頭，您可以將其插入手機，然后將其連接到相機，并允許您執行諸如延時，減輕延時等操作。 ，HDR，只是一堆不同的東西，我認為它是一個非常酷的工具，我剛剛開始使用它，所以現在才對它有所了解。 但令我感到非常興奮的是，現在我只可以攜帶手機，而不必將計算器拖到世界各地。
Patrick: Very cool, and I noticed it is, the premium version is $9.99. There’s also a free version. Which one are you using?
帕特里克：非常酷，我注意到了，高級版是9.99美元。 還有一個免費版本。 您正在使用哪一個？
Stephan: Right now I’m doing the free trial just to make sure it’s what I want and then I’m going to upgrade. I’m going to upgrade for sure because it does what I want to do, and the application allows you to take time lapse photos with your phone itself which is cool too.
斯蒂芬：現在我正在做免費試用，只是為了確保它是我想要的，然后我將進行升級。 我肯定會升級，因為它可以完成我想做的事情，并且該應用程序允許您使用手機本身來拍攝延時照片，這也很酷。
Patrick: Very cool. And you’re going to do some, how many continents are we touching down on this summer?
帕特里克：非常酷。 您要做的是，今年夏天我們降落了多少大洲？
Stephan: Just two, just going to Europe.
斯蒂芬：只有兩個，正要去歐洲。
Patrick: Very cool. So my spotlight is going to be Brad Williams who, you know, was part of the initial team. Brad is going to get married on June 25th to April Helene and they’re going on a cruise ship and doing a big thing, but I just wanted to pass along our congratulations. I got an opportunity to hang out with Brad and April last fall in Philadelphia and it was a great time and they’re great people and wish them the best.
帕特里克：非常酷。 因此，我的焦點將是布拉德·威廉姆斯，他是最初團隊的一員。 布拉德(Brad)將于6月25日至4月海倫(Helene)結婚，他們將乘坐游輪做一件大事，但我只想通過我們的祝賀。 去年秋天，我有一個機會與布拉德(Brad)和四月在費城閑逛，那是一個美好的時光，他們是很棒的人，并祝他們一切順利。
Stephan: Congrats Brad and April.
斯蒂芬：恭喜布拉德和阿普爾。
Patrick: And it’s all coming up gold for Brad. He’s also got, he just announced the second edition of Professional WordPress for APress, and it’s coming so he’s a multiple author now. That’s two book, and this will be the second edition of his second book I believe as well, so lots of things happening for Brad. The SitePoint Podcast was but a stepping stone. Well let’s go ahead around the table. It’s a big table with a lot of people around it, so this might take a while, but Stephan why don’t you go ahead?
帕特里克(Patrick)：這一切都為布拉德(Brad)賺了金。 他也知道了，他剛剛宣布了APress的第二版Professional WordPress，而且即將發行，因此他現在是多位作者。 那是兩本書，這也是他相信的第二本書的第二版，所以布拉德發生了很多事情。 SitePoint播客只是一個墊腳石。 好吧，我們圍著桌子走。 這是一張大桌子，周圍有很多人，所以這可能需要一段時間，但是斯蒂芬為什么不繼續呢？
Stephan: Yeah, I’m Stephan Segraves. You can find me on Twitter @ssegraves and I blog at badice.com.
斯蒂芬：是的，我是斯蒂芬·塞格雷夫斯。 你可以找到我的Twitter @ssegraves ，我在博客badice.com 。
Patrick: And I am Patrick O’Keefe, of the iFroggy Network. I blog at managingcommunities.com and you can find me on Twitter @ifroggy, and you can also follow our usual co-hosts, Louis Simoneau and Kevin Dees @rssaddict and @kevindees, and follow SitePoint at @sitepointdotcom. Visit us at sitepoint.com/podcast to leave comments on this show and to subscribe to receive every show automatically. You can also email at podcast@sitepoint.com with your questions for us. We’d love to read them out on the show and give you our advice. The SitePoint Podcast is produced by Karn Broad . Thank you for listening and we’ll see you next week.
帕特里克：我是iFroggy網絡的帕特里克·奧基夫。 我的博客managingcommunities.com ，你可以找到我的Twitter @ifroggy ，你也可以按照我們通常的共同主辦，路易西莫努和凱文迪斯@rssaddict和@kevindees ，并按照SitePoint在@sitepointdotcom 。 請訪問sitepoint.com/podcast訪問我們，以對該節目發表評論并訂閱以自動接收每個節目。 您也可以發送電子郵件至podcast@sitepoint.com ，向我們提出問題。 我們很樂意在節目中朗讀它們，并為您提供建議。 SitePoint播客由Karn Broad制作。 感謝您的收聽，下周見。
Audio Transcription by Speechpad.
語音轉錄的語音鍵盤。
Theme music by?Mike Mella.
Mike Mella的主題音樂。
Thanks for listening! Feel free to let us know how we’re doing, or to continue the discussion, using the comments field below.
謝謝收聽！ 歡迎使用下面的評論字段讓我們知道我們的狀況，或者繼續討論。
翻譯自: https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-167-fireside-chat/
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